Why have so many humans seen dinosaurs?

by / July 16, 2016

The full title of this article is too long to use for a blog article (which is why the shortened version appears), so let me put the full title here:

If dinosaurs died out 63 million years before humans existed
Why have so many humans seen dinosaurs?

Evolutionary theory claims that the age of dinosaurs began about 250 million years ago and ended 65 million years ago when they were wiped out by what many secularist believe was a huge asteroid strike. Humans, the theory claims, only came on the scene 2 million years go. (For a pictorial, see this timeline.) So according to evolutionary theory, the last dinosaurs died out some 63 million years before humans existed, and no human should ever have seen a living dinosaur. If that is the case why have so many  humans in all countries in all ages persistently claimed to have seen dinosaurs? This article suggests that the reason is two fold: 1. The earth is not that old, it is about 6,000 years old so the evolutionary time frame is entirely off, and 2: Humans and dinosaurs were both created on day 6 (Gen 1.24-26; 31) when God made all the other land creatures. We will examine the evidence for item 2: that humans and dinosaurs were created on the same day, and thus have lived together concurrently on the earth for as long as the earth has existed.

But before we get started, let’s clear the path of  red herrings.
Dispensing with Straw Men and Red Herrings

The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophies  entry on “Fallacies” (hereafter referred to simply as the “IEP“) regarding the Straw man fallacy states:

Your reasoning contains the Straw Man Fallacy whenever you attribute an easily refuted position to your opponent, one that the opponent wouldn’t endorse, and then proceed to attack the easily refuted position (the straw man) believing you have thereby undermined the opponent’s actual position.

Evolutionists are understandably upset when creationists claim evolutionists believe “humans descended from apes.”  Technically, that’s not what they believe, they believe humans and apes have a far distant common ancestor. Thus the “humans descended from apes” argument is a straw man argument that creationists shouldn’t use when discussing with evolution.

Likewise evolutionists shouldn’t claim that creationists believe that dinosaurs died out in the global flood because Noah didn’t have enough room for them on the ark.[1] That likewise is a straw man argument.  First, check out the size of the ark with the life sized ark at Ark Encounter in Kentucky, and realize that Noah would have brought on young or juvenile (and thus small) dinosaurs, and there was plenty of room. Second, all the dinosaurs didn’t die out, as we’ll see below, though numbers have been greatly reduced, in large part due to hunting or clearing out by man. If you’re building a city or farm, who wants a Tyrannosaurus Rex living next door? Thus as ancient accounts state, the practice of driving off dinosaurs was common when making new establishments[2] and is a large part of why dinosaurs were driven away from humans. Thus I will ask old earth believers to refrain from this vacuous argument, as I ask creationists to refrain from the “humans from apes” argument.

Regarding Red Herrings  the IEP states:

A red herring is a smelly fish that would distract even a bloodhound. It is also a digression that leads the reasoner off the track of considering only relevant information.

Likewise there are arguments that are no more than distractions and digressions that evolutionists use when discussing this issue of dinosaurs and its related issue of the age of the earth. Since this article is intended to be primarily a short list of the many instances where people have seen dinosaurs, I will not spend much time here on the many fallacious thought processes people have around this topic, but I do want to point out two common ones. Here’s the first one:

“Humans cannot have seen dinosaurs because everyone knows that dinosaurs died out millions of years before humans existed.”

This fails for a number of reasons, most obviously because of the appeal to a (fallacious) common belief. The IEP on the appeal to a common belief refers you to two other errors incorporated in this one: the fallacies of appealling to the people and appealling to traditional wisdom. Suffice it to say this objection is based on a faulty assumption generated by the erroneous  evolutionary world view propagated by secular scientists which I discuss elsewhere. The evolutionary worldview requires dinosaurs to live an earlier age than man. But is that true? How would you know? By looking at the evidence. That is precisely why we’re looking at evidence, and not going merely on assumptions of those with an evolutionary worldview axe to grind.

“The Bible is not trustworthy in this matter because it never mentions dinosaurs.”

This is sort of like saying the Bible is untrustworthy in speaking about God because it never mentions the word “God.”  This is an obvious example because almost everyone knows the Bible was not written originally in English. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, and in those languages, obviously what we call in English “God” (hebrew: אלהים – (elohim) and Greek: Θεος – (theos) ) is mentioned many times.

Likewise the English word “dinosaur” did not exist until some 17 centuries after the Bible was completed so we wouldn’t expect it to be in the Bible. It was first used in 1842 – by sir Richard Owen, head of the British museum who invented the word.  Words used in the Bible to describe dinosaurs include:

Most commonly:
Tanniyn (תננים – typically translated dragon, sometimes serpent, used some 28 times) example:  Psalm 91.13 “You will tread upon the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the תננים” (dragon). Notice it is in a group with real creatures.

But also:
Behemoth (בהמות – exact meaning unknown, by description Diplodocus or Brachiosaurus) example: Job 40.15 ff (ff=and following) (“Look at בהמות, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox.) Read the description that follows that verse in Job – it’s the description of a large dinosaur.

Above – Diplodocus

And:
Leviathan (לויתן Sea monster, dragon) example: Job 41.1 ff

So the first thing we need to understand as we start our investigation is that dinosaurs are more ubiquitous than is commonly realized because they’ve gone for a long time by an unrecognized name: Dragon.

Dinosaurs used to be called Dragons

Most people believe that tales of dragons are mere myths. But we’ve already seen that in the Bible, dinosaurs are called dragons. And as everyone knows, dragons show up in many legends of old. Legends typically start out with some real, tangible event or object, as John Morris, President, Institute for Creation Research points out:

“Most anthropologists will tell you that whenever you have a legend or mythology, that there’s something that happened that started that myth.”[3]

What evidence (in addition to the Bible) do we have that the dragons of yesterday are the dinosaurs of the today?

Dinosaurs – called dragons – have been seen everywhere

Darek Isaacs, author of  Dragons or Dinosaurs – Creation or Evolution states:

“Dragon legends are absolutely a phenomenon. There are literally too many legends to count. They’re in every tribe and nation, every people group. And you have them in China, Australia, Africa, Europe, North America, South America. Everywhere where people inhabit.”[4]

Anthropologist David Jones marvels not only that they’re found everywhere, but they typically have the same characteristics. After studying over 100 cultures around the world, he remarks:

“…there’s no way to explain how Eskimos could imagine the same dragon that let’s say the Polynesians would imagine, that a Chinese classical scholar would image, that the knights of king Arthur would imagine. So clearly we’re not talking about something that’s imagined here.”[5]

These dragons were not imagined creatures. These are creatures that were seen by humans.  Let me dispense with one more red herring that’s been used regarding much of the evidence in the form of pictures, carvings, etc. that confirm humans seeing dinosaurs: the claim that ancient people drew or carved dinosaurs based on having figured out what they look like after re-constructing bones and fossils of dinosaurs. That reveals great ignorance regarding how difficult it is to construct a dinosaur, having never seen it, from bones.  I demonstrate that difficulty here.  I am not the only one holding to that opinion. Speaking of a carving of a stegosaurus found in the Angkor Watt Temple complex in Cambodia, Otis Kline, founder of the Glendive Dinosaur and Fossil Museum points out the problem with stating ancient people drew dinosaurs from bones:

“Unless it were living, how would it get its anatomy correct? They had to see it in order to reproduce it correctly. And that’s just one of over 80 instances around the world in every single continent where it’s been found that humans and dinosaurs have co-existed because the humans have reproduced dinosaurs in one art form or another.”[6]

So understanding that ancient cultures were able to depict dinosaurs in various types of art (drawings, paintings, carved in rock, etc.) only because they had seen them, let’s look at the evidence. We’ll start with the ancient, and move to the more recent.

Ancient Dinosaur Depictions and references

  • Behemoth In the Bible, God speaks to Job and says:
    “Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you…”  (Job 40.15)
    Why would God tell Job to look at something that didn’t exist?
    Notice also when God says he made the dinosaur – at the same time he made humans.
  • The Chinese Calendar has 12 creatures: 11 real animals, and one which most assume is a mythical creature. It is reasonable to surmise that when the calendar was first developed over 4,000 years ago, all the animals were known to be real – not mythical.  Particularly when you consider that 4,000 years ago when the Sumerians first developed their cuneiform  writing system in Mesoptamia (modern day Iraq), what did they write about? Dragons.[7]
  • The Ishtar Gate In 600 BC Nebuchadnezzar  commissioned the artwork on the Ishtar Gate, upon which are depicted various animals, including a dragon.[8]On the gate, “The animals appear in alternating rows with lions, fierce bulls (rimi or reems in Chaldean), and curious long-necked dragons (sirrush). The lions and bulls would have been present at that time in the Middle East. But, on what creature did the ancient Babylonians model the dragon? … [archaeologist and discoverer Robert] Koldewey believed that the sirrush was a portrayal of a real animal and in 1918, he proposed that the dinosaur Iguanodon was the closest known match to the sirrush.”[9]
  • Alexander the Great, the great conqueror, disseminated Dinosaur stories across several continents.[10]
  • Viking ship bows The Vikings typically had dragons carved on the bow of their bows.[11] What did they base their imagery on?
    Illustration of an ancient wooden figurehead on a Viking longboat
    Above – Viking Longboat with dragon bow
  • St. George and the Dragon – One of the  most famous dragon slayers of the middle ages is St. George, patron saint of England. One must ask, exactly what was he slaying? (Why call it a dragon?)[12]
  • Topsell’s “History of Four Footed beasts” published 1607
    and “The Historie of Serpents or The Second Booke of Living Creatures ” (1608)
    Rachel Doggett,  Curator of Rare Books, Folger Shakespeare Library, describes the contents of Topsell’s catalog:
    “Topsell books primary does include real animals. But he includes the dragon and other creatures that we think of as mythical, and even alludes to the possibility of having been seen in England and Scotland.” [13]
  • Indian Legends of  “thunder birds”
    In the Black hills of South Dakota tales are told of creatures that fly and bring thunder with them. (though likely it was the other way around – the thunder storms brought the large creatures because they need strong winds to propel them to high heights.)
    It has been postulated that it was giant pteranodons (above flying beside Tyrannosaurus) catching thermal updrafts from thunder storms that would lift them to places like the top of the black hills. [14]
  • Indian Witness
    Reg Crowshoe,  Elder of Blackfoot Nation
    Elder Crowshoe relates a story told by his elders: “The old people tell stories about when an iniskin(?)(indian word)  would go by, and they would hide behind a rock. And as the the iniski- or dinosaur or the creature went by, they were bouncing about a foot off the ground, because of the ground moving when a group passed.”[15]
  • Flying Reptiles in Wales
    ”  ‘dinosaurs’, in the form of flying reptiles, were a feature of Welsh life until surprisingly recent times.  As late as the beginning of the present century, elderly folk at Penlllyn in Glamorgan used to tell of a colony of winged serpents that lived in the woods around Penllyn Castle.”[16]
  • The tomb of the Bishop of Carlisle, decorated with brass trimmings of  Sauropod dinosaurs
    Carlisle Cathedal  in Northern England  houses the 600 year old tomb of Richard Bell, the Bishop of Carlisle. The bass trimmings around his tomb are engraved with sauropod dinosaurs.
    “Although worn by the countless feet that walked over it since the Middle Ages, a particular depiction is intriguing in its similarity to a sauropod dinosaur.”[17]”… on the brass trimmings around his tomb, a number of engravings of animals. Many of which are familiar to us today, but there’s also some that look very much like sauropod dinosaurs. In fact any 21st century child would immediately recognize them as being sauropod dinosaurs.[18]
  • Beowulf’s monster
    “If you read about his description about this big beast that he killed because it was terrorizing the villages, it’s a very accurate description of a Tyrannosaurus Rex.”[19]
    (T. Rex is pictured above beside the flying Pteranodon.)”Most people say Beowulf is entirely mythical because there’s all these monsters in it. But if you read Beowulf – the poem – it doesn’t say fairies and magic elves. It’s talking about the ‘Grendel.’ It’s talking about a bipedal monster with giant mouth and big teeth that ate people just like we might image a therapod dinosaur might do.”[20]
  • The Historian Herodotus
    Herodotus visited Egypt and Arabia around 460 BC and described a flying animal with a snake-like body and bat like wings.[21] “The winged serpent is shaped like the water-snake. Its wings are not feathered, but resemble very closely those of the bat.”[22]
  • The Historian Josephus speaks of winged serpents being scared off by flying birds called “ibes”.
    “…for when the ground was difficult to be passed over, because of the multitude of serpents (which it produces in vast numbers… and an usual fierceness of sight, some of which [serpents] ascend out of the ground unseen, and also fly in the air, and do come upon men at unawares”…)”Moses invented a wonderful stratagem to preserve the army safe, and without hurt; for he made baskets like unto arks, of sedge, and filled them with ibes, and carried them along with them; which animal is the greatest enemy to serpents imaginable, for they [the flying serpents] fly from them when they [the ibes] come near them”…”As soon, therefore as Moses was come to the land which was the breeder of these serpents, he let loose the ibes, and by their means repelled the serpentine kind.” [23]

Modern Sightings,

Mokele-Mbembe  meaning: “One that stops the flow of rivers”
A sauropod dinosaur (Apatosaurus?) which many natives in Cameroon claim to have seen.
Examples:

  • Witness: Nawouya Bernard
    States he saw Mokele Mbembe, 2006, Dja River, Southeast Cameroon
    He’s one of many locals who claim that it does in fact exist. [24]
  • Witness: Edimo Ferdinand
    Another eye witness says:
    “The Animal is like an elephant, but the neck is very long”[25]
  • Witnesses: Many Locals claim state they have seen it
    Regarding Mokele-Mbembe, Rich Mullins, part of an expedition to Cameroon states :
    “I’m not really concerned with whether western science says this animal can exist. I’m more concerned with the fact all of the local people say that it does exist.”[26] (emphasis added)
  • Dr. Roy Mackal,  Prof of Biochemistry, retired, writes about Mokele Mbembe in the book:  “A Living Dinosaur? In Search of Mokele Mbembe”
  • Witnesses: Baka pygmies in Cameroon also identify seeing a Saurapod dinosaur and a triceratops [27]

The Loch Ness (Plesiosaur?)
Loch Ness is a body of water 24 miles long ; 1 – 1.1 miles wide; up to 900 feet deep
It’s so large the entire population of the world could fit in it. It is home to the well known Loch Ness Monster.  Sightings were scarce until they put in a road to the loch in 1933 making access easy. Since then, thousands have claimed to see it.  Some of those are no doubt fake sightings.
What about those from more reliable people? Here are some sightings from more credible witnesses:

  • A Highly Respected British Naturalist and Painter
    Sir Peter Scott, one of Britain’s most respected naturalists, who was also a painter, claims to have seen it and painted this painting of it. [28]
  • Veterinary Student
    Arthur Grant – a veterinary student, almost ran into the creature on his motorcycle on Jan 5, 1934 at  1:30 AM. When he sketched what he saw, it looks like a plesiosaur [29]
  • Army Officer
    Lt. Colonel Percy Fawcett of the British Army 1907 |
    Saw what he believed to be Diplodocus [30]
  • The Game Warden for Loch Ness
    Alexander Campbell game warden – said he saw it 18 times in 47 years as the water bailiff. [31]

Canada’s Lake Monster

  • Lake Okanagan in British Columbia, Canada
    There’s a creature the natives call the “Ogopogo”
    Similar to the Loch Ness Monster,  Seen by thousands [32]

America’s Loch Ness Monster
In Lake Champlain, Northern New England a creature  named “Champ”
Hundred’s claim to have seen it.

  • Sandra Mansi, on July 5, 1977 near St. Albans, Vermont
    Saw the creature for 5 or 6 minutes, and snapped a photo [33]
    (which of course is strongly debated.)

Other Locations
Similar sightings[34] have been made in:

  • Lake Kusshara, Japan
  • Lake Ikeda, Japan – where lives a creature they call “Issie”
  • Lake Ostersund, Sweden
  • Seljord Lake in Norway

Conclusion
So why have so many people seen dinosaurs? There are many more sightings that could be listed, but the answer is clear. The reason so many people have seen dinosaurs is because dinosaurs have always lived during the age man, not a separate age of dinosaurs.

The evidence is clear: for the last 6,000 years (the entire age of the earth) people in all locations, of all nationalities all over the world have reported seeing what we today call dinosaurs. The evidence shows dinosaurs have lived with man since God created both man and dinosaur on day 6, and have lived on the earth ever since that time, though many have since died out. The primary reason people don’t believe that is because secularists have scientists toeing the  evolutionary line, and people fall in line behind the scientists, and thus few dare stand against the sacred secular doctrine that “dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.” Thus to the huge body of evidence (of which this is only a portion) they are forced to say all of these people, historians, artists, scholars, entire tribes, etc. all of them are either lying or mistaken. They must claim the same for the Bible. Because they are simple unwilling to face the prospect that they themselves and their worldview are wrong.

But the evidence is overwhelming – for those who care to open their eyes and look at it. But just as some doubted the truth of the risen Messiah – even with him standing before them (Matt 28.17) – some will disbelieve the evidence before them that dinosaurs have always lived in the same time period with man. That is not an evidence problem. That’s an “I’ve made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts” worldview problem.


Notes

1. As is stated on Rational Wiki, http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dinosaur, accessed 7/14/2016
Maybe that was once believed, but that is not current creationist belief.

2. “One Chinese legend tells of a famous Chinese man named Yu. After the great flood Yu surveyed the land of China and divided it into sections. He built channels to drain the water off to the sea and helped make the land livable again. Many snakes and dragons were driven from the marshlands when Yu created the new farmlands.”
The Great Dinosaur Mystery, p. 42 ref. from The Creation Series  by Kent Hovind, DVD Documentary/Serial Broadcast, 2005
Topic: “What Happened to the Dinosaurs

3  John Morris ref from, Dragons or Dinosaurs, Ontario Inc Documentary DVD, 2010 back

4. Darek Isaacs ref from., Dragons or Dinosaurs, Ontario Inc Documentary DVD, 2010
Isaacs is author of Dragons or Dinosaurs – Creation or Evolution; and Extinction of Evoluti

5 David Jones ref from, Quest for Dragons, History channel Documentary, 2005

6 Otis Kline, ref from Dragons or Dinosaurs

7. Narrator, Quest For Dragons

8.Narrator, Quest For Dragons

9. Ancient Dinosaur Depictions, Genesis Park, http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/, accessed 7/14/2016 back

10. Narrator, Quest For Dragons

11. Narrator, Quest For Dragons

12. Narrator, Quest For Dragons
See also Saint George,Wikipedia,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_George

13. Rachel Doggett, ref from Quest For Dragons

14. Darek Isaacs, ref from Dragons or Dinosaurs

15. Reg Crowshoe, ref from Quest For Dragons

16. Bill Cooper, After the Flood, 2014, ref by Brian Thomas, ICR Biotechnologist
ref from Dragons or Dinosaurs

17. Ancient Dinosaur Depictions, Genesis Park, http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/, accessed 7/14/2016

18. David Catchpoole, CMI Biological Scientist,ref from Dragons or Dinosaurs

19. Andrew Snelling, AIG Geologist ref from Dragons or Dinosaurs

20. Brian Thomas, ICR Biotechnologist ref from Dragons or Dinosaurs

21. Dinosaurs and Dragons, Creation Ministries International Booklet, p.12

22. The History of Herodotus, Book II, Tidor Publishing Co, NY s1943, p. 105
Ref from The Creation Series  by Kent Hovind, DVD Documentary/Serial Broadcast, 2005
Topic: “What Happened to the Dinosaurs?

23. Josephus – The Antiquity of the Jews, Book 2 chapter 10; 245, 246, 247
This translation: William Whistom,  The Works of Josephus Complete and Unabridged, Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1987,  p. 69

24. MonsterQuest episode “The Last Dinosaur”, History channel documentary, 2009

25. MonsterQuest episode “The Last Dinosaur”

26. MonsterQuest episode “The Last Dinosaur”

27. The Creation Series  by Kent Hovind, DVD Documentary/Serial Broadcast, 2005
Topic: “CryptoZoology”

28.  The Creation Series  Topic: “CryptoZoology”
See also The Legend of Loch Ness,
http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/, accessed 7/14/2016

29. The Creation Series  Topic: “CryptoZoology”

30. The Creation Series  Topic: “CryptoZoology”

31. The Creation Series  Topic: “CryptoZoology”

32. The Creation Series  Topic: “CryptoZoology”

33. MonsterQuest episode “America’s Loch Ness Monster”, History channel documentary, 2007

34. These four sightings are all referenced in The Creation Series  Topic: “CryptoZoology”


Images:
Featured Image: Tyrannosaurus (with Pteranodon) © Sergey Drozdov / fotolia
Photorealistic and scientifically correct 3D rendering of Diplodocus © pixelcaos / fotolia
Viking Long boat © Paul Fleet / fotolia

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Duane Caldwell
Duane holds a B.Sc. in Aeronautics and a M.Div. from Trinity International University. A former pastor, one of his favorite Bible verses is Isaiah 11.9: "...for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." Until that day arrives Duane is distressed to see the glory due God given to false ideas like Evolution and the Big Bang. He is likewise distressed to see those deceived into believing that science contradicts the Bible or has solved all problems apart from God. He considers his current ministry to be demonstrating why the Christian worldview is the only true worldview, and why science does not contradict it or the Bible. He blogs on numerous topics touching the faith at Rationalfaith.com.

9 Comment

  1. An excellent article with a great deal of support. One problem with identifying logical fallacies is that they overlap and blend: circular reasoning in an ad hominem tied to a straw man. In a way, aren’t they all forms of red herrings, distracting from the topic at hand? I think that’s the case to some extent.

    I see that you made reference to Genesis Park. I referenced Dave Woetzel’s article speculating that the “flying fiery serpent” in the KJV may have been a winged dinosaur. Have you read Dave Woetzel and Richard Dobb’s book, Chronicles of Dinosauria? It also has many accounts of humans living contemporaneously with dinosaurs, plus some amazing artwork.

    I’ve scheduled this article to post at The Question Evolution Project about twelve hours from the time I’m writing this. Several of your articles have appeared there, but I don’t tell you about it every time.

    • Cowboy Bob, Thanks!
      I haven’t read Chronicles of Dinosauria I’ll have to check it out when I get a chance.
      Thank also for the cross-post. Are you on Twitter?

      Duane Caldwell
  2. The issue is scientific fact not ‘worldview’ as you allege.

    And have you never heard of mythical creatures in human culture past and present?

    • Ashley,
      Do you understand the difference between a “scientific fact” and a scientific theory?
      Most of what scientists promote as fact is actually theory.
      Consider – scientists used to be believe in “spontaneous generation” – mice came from wheat and dirty rags.
      I write about that in
      Evolution: Not science, pseudoscience
      Was that considered a scientific fact?
      How about Newton’s Law of gravity? Scientists considered that “scientific fact” – until Einstein. Now all physicists say Newton got it wrong and Einstein’s theory of gravity – called Relativity – is correct. I write about that in
      Science and the paradox of the unbelievable
      The point: scientific “facts” are often theories that can be wrong.

      I see you also never answer the main question of the article: If dinosaurs died out millions of years before humans existed, why have so many people seen dinosaurs? What will you say to the people in Cameroon who say they have seen a sauropod dinosaur? Will you – not having their experience – claim they’re mistaken – or worse – lying?

      I suggest – as does the article – that you seriously consider the many instances where people have claimed to have seen dinosaurs – even depicted them in art, and stop being a lemming and draw the proper conclusion. This is a world view issue because the proper conclusion does not take into accounts worldview requirements like “dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago” – which is an evolutionary worldview requirement. If you drop that requirement, and look at the evidence, the reasonable person will have to conclude that many people have in fact seen living dinosaurs.

      Duane Caldwell
  3. A very written article with good references. I would also like to add that at one time “scientists” also told us that the coelacanth fish was extinct; it isn’t. They also told gave us the Java man and the Nebraska man which were both proven to be falsified. People have to be careful what they put their faith in. Not too long ago we were told that eggs were the source of cholesterol and that we needed to eat from the food pyramid, which has also been turned upside down. We are also being warned about “global warming” which many people have seemingly disproven. Recently I have come upon the “theory” of a geocentric solar system which is completely turning my thoughts of what is, or is not, true upside down. Ref Wikipedia for a good description and discussion on it. According to Wikipedia Einstein himself said it was unknowable without being an outside observer. Point is, trust what has NEVER been shown to be false, the Bible. Read it with an open mind and decide what is truth and what is not. Read Job 39-41. Why would he write these things? Thanks again and keep up the good work. I believe we are in the Romans Ch 1 time frame and can expect many mockers and nay sayers to do battle with you but don’t be discouraged. Keep proclaiming the truth and keep looking up.

    • Curtis,
      Thanks, and well said re: scripture and the times.

      Duane Caldwell
  4. Duane
    You claimed to be presenting a fact not a theory – that humans have ‘seen’ live dinosaurs. That is NOT a proven fact and there is abundant evidence suggesting that this simply cannot have happened. Your article cherry picks from dragon legends and the like. As for Mokele-Mbembe science needs hard evidence eg a live one or a recently deceased one. Otherwise it’s simply story, belief, legend, rumour. (An extant dinosaur would not of course disprove deep time anyway.)
    I am not convinced.
    Ashley

    • Ashley,
      What would you accept as a “fact?” It is a “fact” that people (plural) in Cameroon claim to have seen live sauropod dinosaurs. You seem not to accept that fact. It appears you need “science” to prove that fact for you. You appear to be laboring under the error of scientism. Scientism is the belief that truth only comes through science. But that is a self refuting believe. Can you prove that belief using science? I describe what qualifies as science in
      Evolution: Not Science; Pseudoscience
      Can you use the scientific process to prove your apparent belief that the only “facts” that are true are “scientific” facts?

      There are many fields of study that make truth claims that cannot be proved scientifically. Take math for example. Can you prove scientifically that 2 + 2 = 4? If not, does that make it false? What about the field logic? Can science disprove the tenets of logic? Science in fact relies on the field of logic because most of the “proofs” of science rely on inductive or deductive logic.

      Science requires truth, but not everything that is true can be proved by science. Christians believe in many things that cannot be proved by science. The entire basis of the faith – the miraculous birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ cannot be “proved” by science. That does not mean it is not true. And it doesn’t mean there’s no evidence for it.

      What is the basis of belief in science or anything for that matter? For example, the laws of physics, or that dinosaurs even existed? The rational basis of belief is evidence. Science relies on evidence – and the correct interpretation of that evidence. I provided dozens of pieces of evidence that numerous humans – both ancient and modern – have seen living dinosaurs. Perhaps I did not persuade you. But that does not change the evidence, or the fact that the evidence exists, And your lack of belief (and the lack of belief of materialist scientist trying to keep the theory of evolution alive) does not change the evidence – or its implications. And the evidence – whether you consider it “scientific” or not – points to the fact that dinosaurs, like man, are part of a recent creation by God.

      Duane Caldwell
  5. It is also a fact that some people claim Earth is flat.

    The material (fossil and geological) evidence does suggest that dinosaurs are a ‘recent’ creation.

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